813 kolos

[paulob1]

What is a good bad crazy price for one, 8 k seems to me the top price I should pay..anyone know....

[Abrs]

:shock: Well I paid not much more than half that! - however she has needed a little TLC, but that is part of the attraction for me.

[Abrs]

BTW - Lookout for well worn trucks, a lot of these have had a hard life and have clocked up monster miles, the most commonly worn out components are in the transmission, usually not helped by lack of servicing and oil leaks i.e the hubs have their own oil reservoir which if it runs dry will result in severely damaged planetary gearing and eventually a collapse of the hub - a new hub will set you back around £1000 by the time you've had it sent over. The gearbox is also another favorite, there is some extremely complex gearing inside which requires serious kit to setup during an overhaul(as do many of the other assemblies on the truck), also a lot of the components are hard to get now so the only viable option is a second hand unit, same goes for the transfer box and diffs with the added inconvenience of having to literally split apart the trucks chassis sections! Engines seem pretty good, however lookout again for wear, these are twelve cylinder motors with ball bearing cranks which can cost a small fortune if you end up having to rebuild one, again a second hand or a recon unit is probably a more viable option even with the shipping. The clutch is also megga-bucks if you need to replace it, they are a triple disc unit which requires specialist tooling to setup when replacing, recon units are available for about £1000. Cabs are weak point, they are made from surprisingly light steel which doesn't last well, NOS cabs are available but will set you back around £2000 + shipping, although that said there isn't any part of one you couldn't have fabricated if needed. Tyres are another costly part, these trucks run on 15.00 R21" tyres which are a very hard size to get hold off, I have found brand new ones available for around £800 ea plus shipping, re-caps are also available for about 200 Euros but beware some are very poor quality and can be prone to coming apart. Oh and brakes will cost £300+/- per hub to replace.

To sum up; these are great trucks to drive off road and are like no other 'conventional' truck you'll have driven, they handle fantastically well on rough ground and banks, they are also very comfortable with nice spacious cabs(seats 7), they excel here due to their axle/transmission configuration and they are also surprisingly stable for such heavy trucks (14tons), this is partly because of the low centre of gravity obtained by using the central transmission tube & swing half axles. On road though it's another story - they are hideous; the noise, heat, fume makes them very unpleasant after a while, also their size, lack of steering lock & slow acceleration soon makes you realise that you really shouldn't be out on the road unless you really need to be :lol:. All in all a fun vehicle but they do demand some serious commitment, both in time & money!

If you see a laid up one which is for sale....Beware! it will have been laid up for a good reason! You are probably better off paying over the odds for one of these to get one that has been fully sorted, it will probably save you some serious money/time in the end. I risked it with the one I bought and was lucky, but I've know some who haven't been, it's cost them a lot more to put the truck right than it will ever be worth.

[Fastship]

I guess some of what you say would apply to new Tatra trucks as well? On paper these new trucks look excellent but in the real world the rugged simplicity of i.e. a Kamaz with its' live axles and simple mechanics makes for an easier life.

BTW - your new avatar looks like a truncated swastika :shock:

[paulob1]

thanks boys...I am with you on all of that...they are only toys so \I wont be doing much road stuff other than...I want to be out playing in the fields, want to buy one, load it with a crane, recovery type, a very big winch and a normal winch and a quick winch.. a hydraulic ground anchor and maybe a dozer blade for the snowy period...a dream but not too far away I hope..

[Abrs]

I guess some of what you say would apply to new Tatra trucks as well? On paper these new trucks look excellent but in the real world the rugged simplicity of i.e. a Kamaz with its' live axles and simple mechanics makes for an easier life.

I don't reallyknow, I've never bought a new one

I was primarily talking about trucks that are now 40 or more years old! The fact that many of them still exist and work hard even today I think is a testament to their robustness - there aren't many trucks from that period that are still commercially viable today, but anyway my point was some have had much harder times than others.

The new Tatras seem just as capable as the old ones from what I can tell, they are very popular with many commercial/government operators which I can only presume is down to their productiveness and reliability. Sure a few more special considerations are involved with these trucks but it all depends on what you really want from a truck i.e. the Tatra Jamal dump trucks are unbeatable, no other road going truck is as solid or offers the same abilities off road.

[FridgeF]

I guess some of what you say would apply to new Tatra trucks as well? On paper these new trucks look excellent but in the real world the rugged simplicity of i.e. a Kamaz with its' live axles and simple mechanics makes for an easier life.

You say that, but from an off-road perspective the Tatra setup is miles ahead - the whole drivetrain is pretty much enclosed in the central spine, hence there are no propshafts flapping about in the mud etc., but everything is safely tucked in a big tube enjoying a lovely oil bath. Hub reduction is used all over the place in industrial machinery and is a good way of making a strong drivetrain without making everything massively heavy - you only generate top torque at the wheel itself, so the rest of the driveline only sees some fraction of the stress.

From what I've seen poking about the Tatras are not complex things, everything is electro-pneumatic, the engine is aircooled so there's no coolant/radiator to worry about (clogging with mud, leaking, etc.), and having a central spine means the chassis doesn't twist.

The rest of it is pretty good too - difflocks all round, CTIS, centre winch, 1000 torques, low range gearing... oohh I think I'm going to need to go and lie down with my credit card in a darkened room... :oops:

[Abrs]

oohh I think I'm going to need to go and lie down with my credit card in a darkened room...

Well, you know what they say; "Money isn't everything, but it ranks right up there with oxygen."

[paulob1]

Money is a pain but better the pain with than the pain without...I am after a tatra, I may have found the one I want and if I do it will be at the forum meet...with a bit of luck anyway...am stretching my cash flow a lot at the moment...

[LOGGERS]

The Tatra was designed for the "Military" contracts who have large service accounts paid with taxes although wanted a reliable all terrain vehicle. If the cabins are thin metal perhaps like Mercedes trucks this is due to the fact it is expected to do high mileages and would be well worn out before a cabin showed signs of rust damage?

Modern Tatra's make good commercial sense and are often used in the wood trade.

[Fastship]

I guess some of what you say would apply to new Tatra trucks as well? On paper these new trucks look excellent but in the real world the rugged simplicity of i.e. a Kamaz with its' live axles and simple mechanics makes for an easier life.

You say that, but from an off-road perspective the Tatra setup is miles ahead - the whole drivetrain is pretty much enclosed in the central spine, hence there are no propshafts flapping about in the mud etc., but everything is safely tucked in a big tube enjoying a lovely oil bath. Hub reduction is used all over the place in industrial machinery and is a good way of making a strong drivetrain without making everything massively heavy - you only generate top torque at the wheel itself, so the rest of the driveline only sees some fraction of the stress.

From what I've seen poking about the Tatras are not complex things, everything is electro-pneumatic, the engine is aircooled so there's no coolant/radiator to worry about (clogging with mud, leaking, etc.), and having a central spine means the chassis doesn't twist.

The rest of it is pretty good too - difflocks all round, CTIS, centre winch, 1000 torques, low range gearing... oohh I think I'm going to need to go and lie down with my credit card in a darkened room... :oops:

Well therein lies my point; the Tatra is a fine truck but more parts = more to go wrong and when it does come to inevitable repairs and maintenance the complexity of the Tatra design in comparison to i.e. the simpler Kamaz makes for a more difficult truck in the real world.

I remember reading on a military forum what mechanics were saying about the merits of a simple truck compared to a clever but complex design. What John was saying about the careful setup required by Tatras and the concealed gears within the tube looks problematic to me.

All academic I know but given the choice between a fleet of new Tatras and a fleet of new Kamaz trucks, when you take into account the long term maintenance I wonder which side you would come down on?

[paulob1]

I just want both...

[Abrs]

All academic I know but given the choice between a fleet of new Tatras and a fleet of new Kamaz trucks, when you take into account the long term maintenance I wonder which side you would come down on?

Well, that all depends on which brand you have a hard on for

[paulob1]

both....

[FridgeF]

To be fair the Tatra is not complex nor requiring careful setting up - remembering to fill the hubs with oil is not exactly rocket science, you can use the time you save not greasing propshaft UJ's to check the oil having nosed over a couple of Tatras now and compared with a lot of other trucks they are about as simple as they can be for the capabilities they have.

[Abrs]

'Simple' is probably not quite the word I would use, sure they are by no means a complex vehicle by modern standards but they are not Landrover SIIA simple either, there are no solid state electronics or engine management systems to contend with, but what it lacks in modern sophistication it more than makes up for in the elaborate design of its assemblies - innovation usually comes at a cost, and in this case I would say it was simplicity. This doesn't mean they aren't a robust vehicle but neglect can have serious implications, i.e. the transmission is a well engineered bit of kit but can suffer badly if left with old oil in which has a high concentration of water in it, there are plenty of small bearings inside that can become pitted by corrosion and then fail under load.

And as for oil leaks, well the trick is knowing weather you have one, for instance; if you tear a half axle gaiter you can empty the diff casing of oil very quickly, and probably the first thing you will know about it is that horrible whining noise - by then it's too late, the damage has been done - these are not what I would call low maintenance vehicles in that respect.

[paulob1]

Hmm reminds me a lot of the stalwart, forget its maintenance schedules at your own peril...however it is just a process. They are sturdy vehicles and if you are saying that a good visual check is essential each time you use the old girl then I can understand..if a half shaft gaitor fails and it emptys the diff I assume there is a failed seal on the halfshaft as the gaitor is there to keep the dirt out not the oil in..yes...so its worth checking these periodically...I guess it too depends upon mileage....

keep the stuff coming guys...am taking notes...

still want both types though, I like the kamaz trucks a great deal and they are real trucks for the real world...shame they dont do one for our roads...

[Abrs]

if a half shaft gaitor fails and it emptys the diff I assume there is a failed seal on the halfshaft as the gaitor is there to keep the dirt out not the oil in..yes

No, not on the Tatra, If the gaiter which is located on the inboard end of the half axle fails you lose your diff oil, it seems like a poor design but it is actually a fairly uncommon occurrence for one to fail, they are also well protected by a heavy steel guard bolted to underside of the diff casing, however on an older truck it is more likely to fail, as with all rubber gaiters the rubber becomes stiff with age and more liable to cracking/tearing - a wear and tear item.

Some pics showing the construction of the current Tatra half swing axle assemblies, these are virtually the same on the older 813 - actually the concept has hardly changed since 1923.

[paulob1]

hmm I am nearly there. just a few more things to sort and I am nearly done...

hopefully cargo body with winch, trying to get a dozer for it but not too bothered about that just want to make sure I have the pto to drive a further bit of hydraulic kit...if it all happens she will get a big hiab on the back plus a drawbar hook so that I can tow and trail a couple of toys to the forum meet...

I am just negotiating on it so watch this space...

[paulob1]

bummer, seen these trucks before, they are in a sorry stae indeed and they want 7k for them before they are prepped. likely it will cost a further 3-4k to get them sorted...think these will end up on the scrap heap, they have been there for over 2 years now...no sign of them going in that condition or for that price...