Zoltan's Shed

[zoltan]

Could you plumb the LPG so that you could fill the "domestic" and fuel LPG tanks from the same filler?

As in, two tanks one filler? Yes, with filler pipes from each tank to a non return valve then one filer to the filler point that should achieve single point filling.

I opted for two fill points only because the engine LPG tank is not fitted yet and the idea spot presented itself under the little cover outside

[Andy_l]

Could you plumb the LPG so that you could fill the "domestic" and fuel LPG tanks from the same filler?

As in, two tanks one filler? Yes, with filler pipes from each tank to a non return valve then one filer to the filler point that should achieve single point filling.

I opted for two fill points only because the engine LPG tank is not fitted yet and the idea spot presented itself under the little cover outside

I haven't got either yet, but still plan both. That seems to be the way to go I think.

Would you actually need non return valves to prevent flow between the tanks? If your filling it all from the same (road duty paid) source it doesn't matter what you use it for. You're only using the domestic type bottle to make use of the take off. So you would have a big, easily refilled gas tank for cooking / heating etc. as well as fuel.

Got to get a decent heater before we use it in the winter again, it was pretty cold this weekend!
For the miles we do LPG for the engine isn't top priority, there's plenty of other stuff to do first.

Andy

[Ditch]

Having just spent the weekend in our Gaz at around -5, I can testify that a 1.2 Kw heater is certainly not enough and I'm going to save up my pennies for a 2Kw heater!!
We used 1.2Kw portable gas heater, it did get to bearable eventually, but took far too long probably 2 hours and almost gassed us in the process

I'm surprised to hear that. A Gas heater with no external vent will produce a large quantity of water from the burning process which does tend to make things unpleasant in a small space. Bad memories of rented properties. Eberspachers and electric heaters produce a dry heat and will slowly reduce the humidity. When I get a bit of time I will do a test on the Gaz with a fan heater and report back.

[Andy_l]

Having just spent the weekend in our Gaz at around -5, I can testify that a 1.2 Kw heater is certainly not enough and I'm going to save up my pennies for a 2Kw heater!!
We used 1.2Kw portable gas heater, it did get to bearable eventually, but took far too long probably 2 hours and almost gassed us in the process

I'm surprised to hear that. A Gas heater with no external vent will produce a large quantity of water from the burning process which does tend to make things unpleasant in a small space. Bad memories of rented properties. Eberspachers and electric heaters produce a dry heat and will slowly reduce the humidity. When I get a bit of time I will do a test on the Gaz with a fan heater and report back.

I plan on fitting a Propex (or similar) in the box where the old petrol heater was, but need to get gas and electric sorted first!

[zoltan]

Would you actually need non return valves to prevent flow between the tanks? If your filling it all from the same (road duty paid) source it doesn't matter what you use it for. You're only using the domestic type bottle to make use of the take off. So you would have a big, easily refilled gas tank for cooking / heating etc. as well as fuel.

Andy

The vapour tank is filled with the same road use LPG. I pumped propane into mine but the bottled stuff is actually more expensive in Kentshire than the duty paid LPG - crazy-

The NRV is supposed to prevent backfilling of one to other. I don't know if this would be a problem for the fluid line from the liquid to engine line getting top gas from the vapour tank in it. It would be just like the loss of power sensation when you get the last drops out of the LPG running the engine and just gas runs through. Ive got separate feeds so it won't be an issue for me

[zoltan]

I plan on fitting a Propex (or similar) in the box where the old petrol heater was, but need to get gas and electric sorted first!

Propex is designed for interior installation so you might want to get a nice sized ammo box to mount it in. My Propex is not excessively noisy but you do know its there alright in the night with the gentle roar of the fire and the ever present fan noise. Quieter than the Eberspacher diesel in my Land Rover though

[Andy_l]

I plan on fitting a Propex (or similar) in the box where the old petrol heater was, but need to get gas and electric sorted first!

Propex is designed for interior installation so you might want to get a nice sized ammo box to mount it in. My Propex is not excessively noisy but you do know its there alright in the night with the gentle roar of the fire and the ever present fan noise. Quieter than the Eberspacher diesel in my Land Rover though

I was thinking of putting it in a box where the old fuel burning heater was (front right / passeger side), if it will fit. Not sure whether I'd neet to seal that box so that it draws draw air only from inseide the shed.

[Iain]

I suppose a wood/solid fuel burner is a bit too much hassle if you are on the move a lot
Warm, dry and a wood smoke smell to everything It also burns charcoal and other black stuff which is a bit less effort when I´m on the move.

Its rainy season here and I´m very happy to fire up my wood burner and keep truck, me wife dogs and what have you dry and warm. We get the odd cold night, last 2 years hitting -5c, a gas bottle wood burner keeps on top of that no bother at all.

[zoltan]

I'd love a log burner and aside from the sauna jokes it would bring, the main issue is where to put it as all the interior space is accounted for sadly

[Ditch]

Did some research tonight and I think I have a conclusion.

Outside temp. -8.1
1200Kw fan heater
All in degrees C

Time Inside air temp.
0 -7.2
5 -6.2
10 -4.6
15 -2.0
20 -0.6
25 0.4
30 1.8
35 2.8
40 3.6
45 4.2
50 4.8
55 5.4
60 6.2

When I have used fan heaters on thermostats in buildings before they have been on 24/7 and bring the room up to temp. and then cycle very little just topping up the heat. It's worked fine and I have always been able to work comfortably at any time, in any weather but this is not really the way that you would want the heating in the Gaz to work. Returning from a days skiing or walking far more power is needed to bring the temp. up quickly especially if people and kit are wet. Drying clothes would be a very slow process with 1200 watts.

As an experiment after an hour I fired up both gas rings. Five minutes later the temp. had gone up from 6.2 to 10.8 but all the windows had condensation on them (none before that).

So on reflection, I think that it would be best to get as much heat as you can in the back of the Gaz and avoid wet heating sources. The D2 Eberspachers are rated at 2200 Kw, D4 is 4kW, D5 is 5.5kW.

Another possibility is a fan assisted heat exchanger from the engine water in the box. This would warm up and dry things out when you are driving but no use after a day on the hills unless you want to tick the engine over for an hour or so.

[Ditch]

Eberspacher D5 is £1000 new just for the heater! A pot bellied stove looks very good value for money by the side of these diesel heaters.

[Abrs]

Aye, you don't want an unflued gas heater in there - IIRC for every litre of gas you burn you get four liters of water!

An indirect heat source has to also be the safest in that small environment.

[haymish]

was pondering on a diesel eberspacher for a towed shed i am concidering building out of my gaz back-but at that money the petrol one i've allready got will be used instead!i'd have to have it on for a very long time before it would be worth buying a diesel one instead.
and i'd put in a pot stove too

[zoltan]

was pondering on a diesel eberspacher for a towed shed i am concidering building out of my gaz back-but at that money the petrol one i've allready got will be used instead!i'd have to have it on for a very long time before it would be worth buying a diesel one instead.
and i'd put in a pot stove too

What is your petrol one? Is it an Eberspacher B1 or B2?

[haymish]

dont know -will have a look tomorrow.

[Iain]

space! Where to put stuff. A Constant source of head scratching

My wood burner is a standup style thing, when its not in use it doubles as a table leg. Yes, in the winter I dont use my table much .

The smallest wood burner I´ve seen was a horizontal bit of 20cm x 20 cm box, that didnt take up much room and seemed to work pretty well. Added bonus was that it took bigger logs, mine wants cut bits around 20 cm but this little thing can take much longer bits.

I´m reminded of a moment long ago when I chucked out an eberspachead heater cos I couldnt get the thing to work

[zoltan]

I am keen to explore such a device, it would be so good to supplement the other heaters with a burner of some sort

[haymish]

my eberspacher isn't!-its an east german built heater made by veb robotron.3kw output and basically identical to an eberspacher[veb made electronics /optical etc ,including zeiss binoculars]

[zoltan]

Thought I'd add a little to the thread but nothing worthy of a photographs

Finally decided to tackle the plumbing and decided instead of making one big tank, to go for two small tanks since my record of puncturing water tanks with screws is not good. So bought a coupe of Fiamma plastic 70 litre tanks to go in the front two seat boxes which means I still have reasonable storage in the boxes, 140 litres of water on the pump and three 20 litre containers in the box by the back door as back up. If I need any more I can always make a tank to go under the chassis.
My prime consideration is keeping the whole lot from freezing as the first big trip is skiing and the porta potti has already frozen its clean water tank sitting in the Gaz through the recent cold weather. I have the 4 kw Eberspacher water heater so the idea is to route the heating pipework for this round through past the water tanks so that they at least get a little heat, then onto the toilet cubicle with a small radiator in there. At least there will be enough heat to prevent things from freezing down in the seat boxes and far flung corners of the shed.

As expected, the 1.6kw LPG Propex heater does struggle to make the shed warm with -10 outside so I am pleased to have the Eberspacher as a back up or main heater

With very cold temperatures, trying to uncoil the red PVC water hose and route it nicely is more or less a waste of time, it does not want to uncurl itself and insists on flattening itself as soon as you try and straighten it. Ideally, running some hot water through it would be best but there is no hot water in the Gaz and it can't get near enough my hot tap indoors

This cold weather is perfect for testing though and what with a bit of snow, you can soon see the need to provide solutions for various scenarios you'd not normally see or be lucky to predict in the summer

I have pretty much the rest of the week to tinker without the kids constantly requiring feeding and entertaining so I have high hopes for some progress in the shed and with the engine (see tuning challenge thread)

[Ditch]

If you have space it would be worth insulating the water tanks by sitting them on polystyrene or Kingspan and then making a top and sides out of the same stuff. This will reduce the chances of freezing and also mean that you don't have 140 litres of cold water in the box making the air cold.