Summer Classics Bristol 2012

[aardvark64]

Another triumphal display by progressive equipment in decadent capitalist car show:
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/ ... ?start=all

Pulled a large Winnebago-like camper-van out of the mud on Friday evening. Very smug feeling with 6WD engaged. No discernible effort was needed to pull the camper out of the trenches its wheels had dug for themselves in the soft ground.

Best wishes, Colin

[iannima]

I am glad to hear that you are proudly enjoying the Zil once again .

[aardvark64]

Thanks Matteo. Was enjoying it greatly right up to the moment the clutch plates disintegrated on the 4x4 course:



A few more pictures here:
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/ ... ?start=all

Got towed off the course by a friendly Matador. So I need a new clutch now. Took the clutch housing off and several large pieces of smelly black asbestos dropped out. From what I can see, the clutch basket looks okay: it's the two pressure plates that have succumbed.

Up to then, the Zil had performed superbly: took three of the slopes with ease. They didn't look particularly taxing, so I thought I'd have a go in preparation for the Wagtails event. Put the gearbox into second at the top of the down slope, with the low range and 6WD (yay!). Was just starting down when there was a 'ping' from underneath and thereafter, to quote Formula 1 commentators, I had a "box full of neutrals". Coasted up the other side a metre or so and then slid gracefully back down into the dip. Sweaty moment. Ooops.

Fortunately, it didn't happen on the motorway there or back, nor on the long, steep hill close to where the site was, nor while manoeuvring into its parking place up on my front garden (which would have been the worst option by far).

Getting the Zil back on the road is the next priority. Fortunately, again, I'm on holiday this week. So any tips as to where new clutch plates can be obtained would be helpful, e.g. Vlad/magnety22 via ebay. If anyone has one (paulob?) I'll gladly come and collect it and buy a replacement for you in slow time. I guess the procedure is to drop the prop shaft to the transfer box, separate the clutch housing and gear box and then (supported by a fork lift or dolly) draw the clutch away from the gearbox. Then pull the clutch basket off and clean up any scoring on the plates or teeth. Anything else to watch out for?

Best wishes, Colin

[markb+]

I have a brand new clutch i bought from magenty
It wouldnt fit the splines on my zil, i can send it you if you want to try it
I ended up having mine relined

[zoltan]

Careful on the dusty residue, highly likely to be asbestos

Sorry to hear that you have gone one step forward and two back. I think it goes like this for a while until you've been through a list of things. Not sure where I am with my list

[aardvark64]

Thanks for the thought - it smells really noxious. I'll be wearing a face mask when I scrape the rest of the debris out of the clutch housing. Will take some more pictures when I go back down to the workshop.

Will take the opportunity to replace the silencer box and do one or two other jobs underneath at the same time. I'm really fortunate: the show took place on the site where Joe Nemeth has his steam locomotive workshop. Joe and his son Dan have kindly agreed to do most of the work, fitting it in around their other commitments. I reckon the Zil was planning this all along...

BTW, Dan is Dan the Steam on HMVF, for anyone reading his Halley re-build thread (it was can-do Dan who stopped in for a visit and ended up helping me with the starter motor the other night).

Best wishes, Colin

[tangowhisky]

You have my sympathy! Classic vehicle ownership can be frustrating at times!

[zoltan]

Joe and his son Dan have kindly agreed to do most of the work, fitting it in around their other commitments. I reckon the Zil was planning this all along...

That's really handy/good of them. Wagtails is nice like that in that Charles, the owner, has a farm workshop which has been handy when various vehicles had maladies on Forum meets

[paulob1]

colin, do not use a rusian clutch, get it relined in the UK. was the clutch black and oily, if so then its likely that your crank seal is weeping a bit, not a massive worry but you should ensure that the drain hole is clean at all times so that any oil that does weep out of the crank seal can escape and not line your clutch...all of my zils have had the clutches fail like this, we can change a clutch in less than an hour these days...without removing the box from the truck and without using any specialist tools...getting the clutch to line up on the splines is the only tough bit...

once done the new clutch will be much better than the old one and will give much better service...

if the weep from the crank is a torrent then you may have to cosider changing the seals, doubful but possible, you can change the lower seal easily but the upper seal is a bigger job, not difficult but a lot of fiddling...

[aardvark64]

Thanks for the tips Paul - much appreciated. There is/was a lot of oil on the plates (what's left of them). MarkB has kindly sent me his old one from Vlad (that didn't fit his splines) but everyone has said getting the old clutch re-lined is a better bet. I may have to fit the Ruski one as an interim measure just to get the truck moving again and out of Joe's yard. I can get the old one re-lined in slow time and re-fit it for fun afterwards.

The drain plug is #6 in the picture below?



Swapping a clutch in an hour is impressive. Current plan is to move the clutch and gearbox together on a dolly, after disconnecting the prop-shafts to the transfer box and the fore-mounted generator. I was a bit worried that the exhaust pipes might get in the way, but the box should just drop down between them.

How do you dis-connect the gear lever? Is it accessible from inside the cab?

Best wishes, Colin

[paulob1]

leave the gear lever on the box, dont leave the clutch attached to the box, its only four bolts on the box, it will drop down the middle, you dont need to do that it will move out of the way.....just, there is a panel on the cab floor that screws out and allows full access...easy to then lift the box up and back...then you remove the clutch pressure plate, careful it is heavy..

re the drain, if I remember correctly it is a permanent drain, ie no screw just a hole, it is usually blocked up, but i may be wrong on that as it is some time since I stripped one...

[aardvark64]

Got the clutch back on today - took two of us 12 hours to do it and the job's still not quite finished (need to put the cab floor-plate back on and make a new gasket for the clutch housing. My camera is broken so wasn't able to take any pictures - I will get some of the old plate tomorrow, so you can see how total the failure was.

Worst parts were getting the clutch basket back in past the yoke, and then lining up the splines so the gear-box would slot back in properly. I'm sure we were doing something wrong 'cos those two operations alone took over 4 hours. My arms felt like jelly at the end: the clutch basket is freakin' heavy and the housing is at an awkward height to lift to while lying on your back.

The rest of the time was spent putting the prop shafts back on, cleaning the clutch housing of the gunk and shredded clutch, and so on. The drain hole in the housing was completely clagged with muck and obviously hadn't been draining for some time. The cover plate for the drain hole was bent back: I guessed it was from the force of impact when the clutch lining gave up.

Thanks for the help - I really appreciate how willing people are to share their knowledge and experience.

Best wishes, Colin

[aardvark64]

As promised, here are some pictures of the old clutch:








There are still a few wisps left on the hub, but otherwise the fragments of lining were no bigger than a 50p piece. There are still some rivets left hanging in the metal plate, but most were in the soup in the bottom of the clutch housing. Intention is to get this one re-lined with UK materials and stow it away for the future (owner).

This is what it's supposed to look like (courtesy of Vlad/magnety222's ebay page):




Best wishes, Colin

[jamie_grieve]

If you have any dramas at all finding someone to do the relining work then I totally recommend these guys:

http://www.jimjackservices.co.uk/

They did the clutches for my Berliet last year, were cheap and awesome to deal with. They do all kinds of strange stuff. We used to get dragline clutches and brakes done there years ago and I was really pleased to find out they were still around. He'll probably give you a choice of lining thicknesses. I got two clutches relined with 6mm and then put a spacer between the clutch cover (basket) and the flywheel I can take out if it starts to wear out.
Nice to see you back into it!!

[KarlJ]

Another would be C & R Units (http://www.hotfrog.co.uk/Companies/C-R-Units) who used to reline our Chieftain brake pads and shoes on the Ferret/Saracen...

[aardvark64]

Thanks for the tips - have also been recommended to try these people: Friction Services (Bristol) Ltd. Forgot to measure how thick the linings were before I put the new clutch in, so Jamie's post was very timely.

Here is the cleaned-up clutch housing and new cork gasket before they went on (I drove back to the house with the cover off to shake out the last of the crud). Used the kerosene cleaning bath at the workshop to get rid of the accumulated grime and asbestos fragments. The bottom inch of the housing was solid with fragments of lining and old oil.








The truck is still for sale - I'm happy to keep it running until someone makes me an offer for, it or someone on here, say, gives it a good home. But it's now had a new clutch, the starter motor and 6WD solenoid have been refurbished, and I will supply new spark plugs and silencer (plus some other goodies that I ordered from Vlad/magnety222). This must make it a good proposition for someone. I might even strip and re-build the carburettor if it's not gone by the winter

Best wishes, Colin