2012 Forum meet rescheduled

[marcus]

So ends my short rally season this year and what a way to end it. Huge thanks to Paul for taking James for a spin in the MTLB, also to Debbs and Charles for the superb cooking, thankyou Ian for the NVG set, my first christmas present ;) ,also a big thankyou to everyone else for making this meet the best yet Had soooo much fun in the Praga of death, my new toy, it out performed my expectations by so much, will start a thread in the Praga section on what i've done as soon as I sort some pics. My apologies to Neil for not giving you a go, next time beat Charles to the cab! Oh and Rob, yeah it beat the stolly

[paulob1]

Nah it didnt, the stalwart was not playing right, gears were not working and clutch playing up....it didnt help getting it full of water. and at nearly twice the weight of the praga it isnt really a fair fight...plus the praga isnt exactly standard...but for sure its a damn good off road truck...and at wagtails where the hills are short and sharp it excels...

[marcus]

Gotta admit the stolly is an awesome machine, Halford clay just turned our tyres into racing slicks and landrover sized banks and holes definitely suit the praga more than the stolly, wouldn't want your fuel bill Paul

[paulob1]

nor do I but it has to be done, I have to say without doubt that this weekend was brilliant, in all ways..

YES, in comparison it would be difficult to compare, weight is the biggest issue at wagtails, as can be seen the stalwart sank into the mud a great deal quicker than the praga, but you would have expected that to give grip, but all it did was find more clay...and more slip..

the praga is an awesome tool Rob. I doubt that there is anything that is as good as it for the weight and power, it would kill a unimog, or any 4 x4 I know of...The pinzguar would be nowhere...

I definetely am thinking how I can match it.

The stalwart has three flaws,

1. it has a hull so ground clearance is compromised...once at its limit the hull floats and then you have no drive at all.
2. It has overhangs front and back, not much agreed but they still stick out more than the wheels
3. It is heavy...8 tons and thats assuming the weight loss I did removed a ton of material...

next year I am coming without the sides and some more of the body work to see if i can lose some of the weight...would like to get some of those really fat tryes too, that would help immensely..Or it may be easier to build another praga type with portal axles and diesel engine...

[Rob Reznik]

Sorry Paul but if the Praga did what the Stolly didn't then in my book it won - you cannot blame poor gear change and weight - there's only one person you can blame for it not working as it should .

When I saw what what Marcus did to his Zil I thought he was the best person to capitalise and improve the Praga - I'm not sure in what conditions the Stolly working at 100% would beat it?

Improvements I planned to make on the Praga included sorting that front axle which I think Marcus has done - but adding a locking diff to it - the middle axle still needs the chains taking off - I'm still not sure I made the right decision by shortening the chassis - it made problems for that middle axle and also meant we had to lower the gearbox which didn't help with ground clearance. Was also thinking about moving that engine oil sump and moving the brake chambers so they would be less vulnerable. With regard to weight its just a standard Praga chassis - I didn't have any intention to beat anything of any weight I just wanted to build a formidable off roader .

The Stolly will always be a problem due to its ground clearance - I don't think removing those side panels will help much they are only aluminium.

Glad u all had a good time

[portamurda1]

Rob, there is one thing the stolly is better at....swimming..by the way, we have some of your friends here, the bankoc ladyboys....

[Rob Reznik]

Rob, there is one thing the stolly is better at....swimming..by the way, we have some of your friends here, the bankoc ladyboys....

I want to see the Praga under water - I wanted to be able to sit on the roof and have hand controls for accelerator and brake and steer with feet - I want to see a video of it with someone sitting in the water moving forward then see the Praga driving out - and I'm in Laos not Thailand

[paulob1]

ROb there is no denying it went places where the stolly didnt and it did not sink in the mud like the stolly did, in those terms it won...but we did not try all the routes and nor did we do the hole, which would have been interesting in the stolly if i could have engaged second easily it would have been an interesting event...but with the bungs open and no second gear I was not able to get much of anywhere...ground clearnce isnt bad on the stolly remember it has independant suspension and no diff, not sure how much it is but its about the same as having portal axles...

however it does have overhangs and other issues...if i shortened the front, and the back, fitted the bungs and lightened the overal chassis it would be an interesting event...but thats not going to happen..

praga was very good indeed....you need to be proud of what you have built there rob...

[zoltan]

Is that Stolly a swimmer Paul? With bungs in etc

[Rob Reznik]

I think you will find the ground clearances are similar on both vehicles - I'm not sure what the measurement is but I know the Praga was able to drive over a Jerry can - but the big difference is that on the Praga it is on three points - the diffs on each axle - on the stolly it is the whole floor pan - the Praga can cut through mud with the diffs as the area is relatively small but the Stolly will just spread and sit on the mud - although I wasn't there I am guessing as the stolly sunk it sat on its belly and the wheels weren't able to get traction.

[paulob1]

no its worse than that as they found when they took the stollys to Thailand it then slips sideways and puts all the weight on one side only so sinking the truck further into the mud....deep thick sludge like wagtails is the stollys worst enemy...agree re difs they can cut through but the stollys hull simply floats on the mud...if you seee the pictures on the site you see she does that in the first case...but the rest was just the clay blocked up the tyres and gave no traction at all...you had to be very careful where you went......but without the gears working properly it was impossible to move her with any certainty..will try to get that sorted..stollys have their limits just like any machine...

but the stolly like any off roader has its benefits and its downsides...you cant modify a stolly like you can a praga, would be good though to shorten the overhangs and take off more weght but she is as good as she is going for now..

ZOLTAN, it would float and drive through the water with its wheels, I HAVE REMOVED THE DOWTY JETS TO REDUCE WEIGHT. hOWEVER NOT WITH BOTH BUNGS OUT IT WONT...

[Rob Reznik]

didnt look close but was the stolly on the russian tyres? - I found running the tyre pressures on the Praga below 10 psi worked best.

[paulob1]

YES AND WE WERE AT 25PSI, i LET THEM DOWN JUST BEFORE THE END OF THE DAY..and that ws helping but will do it properly next time...

[portamurda1]

No pics of the pimped mtlb....?

[Rob Reznik]

Saturday afternoon

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvHk7KX6 ... ature=plcp[/youtube]

Hi Colin thanks for the vid - anymore? - can u change the Praga model to v3s not vs3 it will be easier to find on youtube!!- cheers

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEmpe-CcWnk[/youtube]

Edit - just found the other vid which shows the front axle/suspension - looks like you've done a good job there Marcus - keeps the cab straight - any problems with the front axle hitting the oil sump now or has that gone with the mods? bet that steering is lighter with that ram - with the old suspension on the front the whole thing would flex and the clutch pedal would stick down - are tyre pressures a bit high? - looks like you still have those axle hangers - any ideas for that central prop improvement? - if you can remove the hangers it will give the truck more grip over tighter surfaces - Cant see any blood there Charles - not trying hard enough - great job Marcus

[zoltan]

Hi Colin thanks for the vid - anymore? - can u change the Praga model to v3s not vs3 it will be easier to find on youtube!!- cheers

Oooops! Bit of a school boy error there! Sorted now

I need to see if Debbie has any other footage, there is the bit that she has on her phone that is on Facebook so I will get that and post it up on Youtube

[zoltan]

Onboard the Praga of Death, a sort of Charles-eye view

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqCf3GxH ... ature=plcp[/youtube]

Winching the Stolly away from the stream

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxo1DZmz ... ature=plcp[/youtube]

[paulob1]

she just wanted to go swimming, very slippy down there and little or no grip...even with the tyres down.

[portamurda1]

she just wanted to go swimming, very slippy down there and little or no grip...even with the tyres down.

still no pimped mtlb pics....and what about getting that swimming again?

[marcus]

Forgot to mention, some pictures from the meet taken by Dave Bedford(orange Cummings coat) have been sent to Military Machines International, should be in the next edition, will keep you all informed